Curse

freekedoutfish · Dec 14, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

The "Battle of Turai's Procession" is a perfect example of how Anet has sacrificed the joy of playing to make the game harder.

That quest in particular is reduced to nothing more then grindingly dyeing, resssing, picking one off, dyeing, ressing, picking one off.

Its not fun and its not satisfying due to the VERY low reward for completing it.

It can take ages of repeating the same actions and it reduces you to frusatration.

For anyone who doesnt know, you basically have to take on around 4 groups of about 15 margonites.

Each with 3 clerics, lots of warriors, 3 reapers and 3 sears.

Taking out the clerics is hard enough due to spell-breaker.

Your reduced to -60dp long before youve taken out the first group and you dont last more then 30 seconds each time you attempt to make a strike.

As much as I love a challenge. There just isnt any joy in this quest.

The main reason I say that is because of the reward for doing this "master" quest;

4,000 experience.
400 gold and a kournan coin!

You get more experience for doing easier quests in factions.

And no lightbringer points or sunspear points?

Anyone explain how this seems satisfying?

I dont mind Anet making things harder, but they have to increase the rewards to match the effort we put in.

This is just an example of this, and im in now way picking at this quest alone. There are probably countless other "master" quests around NF which dont reward enough to feel satisfying.

[Edit]

I appreciate everyones suggestions on how to defeat this quest. I'll no doubt try them all out and eventually do it.

How ever I wasnt suggesting the quest was impossible, whether it be with a PUG or henching.

Can we try to avoid posting suggestions about the quest and "pictures" of you having completed the quest, because that is moving away from my original post and the point I was making.

To those who said to simple ignore the quest; I cant really do that as I only have about 6 left to do in the whole of NF.

2 of which are collecting stuff,
3 are in DoA and this one.

So ive not alot else to do.

Maybe im just weird, but i'm sure you all know how frustrating it is when youve completed all 3 games but you still have the odd one or two quests still to do on each one?

My OP was trying to make the point that its not fun to do and it pushes you to the point of frustration.

Its not because I have issues with hard quests or mission, but more due to lack of a reward for doing it and the inconsistency between the "master" quests in NF.

Some being hard and some being stupidly easy. So why the "master" bit?

But this quest does actually live up to the "masters" title, which is a good thing. Its a challenge and it requires thinking.

But if you make the assumption that the "master" quests are meant to be the hardest ones in the game and then compare them to Tyria's hardest quests such as the Titan quests, or SF;

The rewards for doing the NF ones arent worth it.

Compare 4k xp in NF to 10k xp in Tryia.

Now I would personally say that 3/4 of the Titan quests are no harder then most "Master" quests in NF, but they are still a challenge.

But if you look at the last Titan Quest, which ive yet to complete, which is frusatrating and VERY hard. Im willing to endure it due to the reward you get of 10,000 xp.

That may make me sound greedy, but I dont see how.

Is it really that bad to expect more then 4k experience from a "master" quest, which by its own name should be a challenge worth rewarding well.

The crunch is that the reward doesnt meet the quest. We need a greater reward for "master" quests otherwise why call them "master" quests, other then the odd one of them being difficult?

I love 99% of the game and all the campaigns. But Anet is having a laugh at our expense by naming things as "master" and then giving us nothing in return.

MSecorsky · Dec 14, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Rule #1. Everything is easier with a mesmer along.

pingu666 · Dec 14, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

i remmber the quest from unwaking waters to palace, requires nothing more than mapping XD
3000xp, 1 skill point and some gold

Bale_Shadowscar · Dec 14, 2006, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Ok... One question here. If you don't like the reward, and you don't like doing it... Why do it?

freekedoutfish · Dec 14, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bale_Shadowscar

Ok... One question here. If you don't like the reward, and you don't like doing it... Why do it?

Because aside from the two DoA quests, and the two quests to collect items....

....i have NOTHING else to do in the entire world of GWs.

Dalimoor_Kalkire · Dec 14, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bale_Shadowscar

Ok... One question here. If you don't like the reward, and you don't like doing it... Why do it?

That isn't the point he is making. That goes right up there with the "go play WoW" comments. He means to say that in order to make it harder, Anet just pitted larger numbers, much larger numbers against you. Rather then add tactical skill to the quest, it's just an onslaught instead. It's like saying 10v8 wasn't hard to many people, so they made it 15v8. No real change, just more numbers.

**Note: My numbers are just an example, not pertaining to the quest itself.

Terra Xin · Dec 14, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I gave up on that quest, I managed to get rid of 5 groups or so, and then it was getting late I took out the last one, another two groups show up.

I don't mind the difficulty or the fact that the rewards are crap, but it beats doing nothing. There must be 50 of those margonites, and the're the strong types too.

Bale_Shadowscar · Dec 14, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalimoor_Kalkire

That isn't the point he is making. That goes right up there with the "go play WoW" comments. He means to say that in order to make it harder, Anet just pitted larger numbers, much larger numbers against you. Rather then add tactical skill to the quest, it's just an onslaught instead. It's like saying 10v8 wasn't hard to many people, so they made it 15v8. No real change, just more numbers.

**Note: My numbers are just an example, not pertaining to the quest itself.

Meh. There are going to be some quests in the game like that. If they could make unique and interesting quests in the timespan that they have, then I'm sure they would. Making the quest easier? Whats that going to solve apart from getting you another 4000 exp and striking another thing off the OP's to do list?

Dougal Kronik · Dec 14, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

The worst thing about that bloody quest is the Margonites converge rather quickly into one insanely huge mob with 6 Clerics, in the first wave!

And the Centaurs are really only there for eye candy before the first wave hits, because they are all gone after the first party wipe!

No, I really don't enjoy that quest either. It's also uncompleted.

konohamaru heaven · Dec 14, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I would like to start off by saying the Experience Rewards in NightFall and of Factions are two completely different matters since each is an individual chapter so comparing the two would be thrown out the window right there (I would consider Prophecies to have more in common quest reward experience wise)

This quest as you can see in the Bright Red Color is a MASTER level quest which implies that it should be rather difficult for the area and for the level that your characters/heroes should be in that area (which is level 20). People were complaining how easy Player versus Environment was so AN madea step in the direction to giving some challenge into that portion of the game (personally I would like the game as a whole excluding a few specific area to be made A LOT harder than it is now).

If you really think it is too hard all I can Suggest is this: www.guildwiki.org .

You have to understand the Cleric Margonite AI isn't too bright in some missions/quests I was able to wipe out two groups each with their own cleric at one time by ignoring them for the most part why you might ask is that their AI will not cast spell breaker on any other ally besides themselves so you could say nuke'm in the crossfire and I did this all with henchmen and Heroes in my groups.

~Konohamaru

P.S. Just remember any player can be great but, only the truely great learn by watching how the enemy acts.

EPO Bot · Dec 14, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I got it done with hench. the secret: Devide them!

You need to know the margonites come from three directions in three waves. If you ambush one of three groups wile they are still running towards their gathering point, you can take them out in much smaller chunks. Be creative.Just dont let them team up.

OlMurraniKasale · Dec 14, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

This is one of those quests that has everything to do with shifting-strategy and not a bit to do with a particular skill.

Its tough, its frustrating, but once I realized all I needed to do was run past those centaurs, go to the right and attack the one group converging on you, it was infinitely easier.

I take out that first group to the right by running to it. Of course, all the other groups converge normally on the centaurs, at which point you do indeed have an uphill battle. You can draw some of the mobs towards you, picking them off one by one, but I think the MOST frustrating thing is the mobs will sometimes follow you all the way across the map. THAT is what needs fixed!

Coridan · Dec 14, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I was able to hench/hero the mission (not a boast just a statement that it can be done)...If u need some help let me know IGN Coridan A US servers on most evenings

BTW I think i did the same thing that the above post mentioned...don't "just" target the clerics...if they aren't dying quick pick another squishy target and take it down... Be sure to call your targets so all of your players/henchman/heros are targetting the same mob. Bring 2 elemental heros if u have them load em up with Searing Flames bring your MM and put Tainted Flesh on him leave your group healing up to the hench monks and you shouldn't have any probs.

Former Ruling · Dec 14, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

If you have a friend, one of the mega-defense builds works fine with heros.

Example:
(everyone is /Me with MoF)
Ranger - Winter/Greater
Nuker - Searing Flames
Nuker - Searing Flames
Paragon - They're On Fire! and leadership support w/"Incoming!"
Paragon - Command Support w/"Imcoming!"
Monk - Light of Deliverance is nice
Monk - Maybe a nice Prot monk
Necro/Anything really - I rather like Spiteful here, since they bunch up in a giant ball alot of the times, alittle spec into Death for Well of Profane never hurt either.

Basic premise:
-40% Dmg near 100% of the time
-~35% Dmg from anything your nukers have touched or your Paragon's Chants have effected.
-50% Dmg half the time from rotating Imcoming!s, this used to be full coverage.
Damage comes from the SS, 2 Nukers, and Paragons.

I did this before the big Paragon nerf if I remember right, but it should still be ok.

freekedoutfish · Dec 14, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by konohamaru heaven

I would like to start off by saying the Experience Rewards in NightFall and of Factions are two completely different matters since each is an individual chapter so comparing the two would be thrown out the window right there (I would consider Prophecies to have more in common quest reward experience wise)

This quest as you can see in the Bright Red Color is a MASTER level quest which implies that it should be rather difficult for the area and for the level that your characters/heroes should be in that area (which is level 20). People were complaining how easy Player versus Environment was so AN madea step in the direction to giving some challenge into that portion of the game (personally I would like the game as a whole excluding a few specific area to be made A LOT harder than it is now).

If you really think it is too hard all I can Suggest is this: www.guildwiki.org .

You have to understand the Cleric Margonite AI isn't too bright in some missions/quests I was able to wipe out two groups each with their own cleric at one time by ignoring them for the most part why you might ask is that their AI will not cast spell breaker on any other ally besides themselves so you could say nuke'm in the crossfire and I did this all with henchmen and Heroes in my groups.

~Konohamaru

P.S. Just remember any player can be great but, only the truely great learn by watching how the enemy acts.

The "master" description means nothing. There is a quest you do from the same NPC before this one which is considered master and its easy as pie.

You just run around killing a few stationary creatures. Thats the grand sum of its difficulty.

And masters quests in the RoT are easier too.

The rewards simple dont meet the challenge.

And I dunno why your saying comparing the rewards between factions and nightfall are completely different. A quest is a quests and having played all the campaigns, you CAN compared them.

Factions gives far greater rewards for doing far less.

Nightfall gives you the same, for doing harder and more frustrating quests.

What is the point in making "master" quests, if you still get the same amount of experience as most reqular quests?

Theres your comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bale_Shadowscar

Meh. There are going to be some quests in the game like that. If they could make unique and interesting quests in the timespan that they have, then I'm sure they would. Making the quest easier? Whats that going to solve apart from getting you another 4000 exp and striking another thing off the OP's to do list?

I didnt say make it easier. I said its just frustrating and the reward isnt worth it.

I think the quest is fine. Its the fact that the 3 mobs which apear in each part just mingle together to make an utterly frustrating oober mob.

There is no tactics to it at all.

Its just throwing 3 huge groups at you and letting them merge. Then bringing on the next lot and then the next.

Its just hack and slash per usual.

And as for crossing things off the OP'ers "to do" list. I have nothing on my "to do" list other then hardest quests from each continent, because ive completed tyria, cantha and elona.

So yeah I do want them done!!! But I want more then 4000xp for going through that headache.

Look at the Titan quests in Tryia and you get 10,000 experience and most of them are easier.

konohamaru heaven · Dec 14, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Comparing the two chapters is like comparing Night today. Factions was based on massive rewards for little to no effort which really is just plain silly IMHO (I say make factions a lot harder too

) to level up faster while in NightFall they want you to actually work for your experience to level up and the fact you have 3 additional party members you can control all the way down to their attribute point I think deserves you to have to do more work it is an equal trade off.

I hate to tell you this but almost every rpg are hack and slash to an extent like WoW, Guild Wars, Diablo II, EverQuest and the list can go on and on and on. If you are having so much trouble change your party style change a hero or two your party variety plays a big role in what you can and can't do.

By changing one party member it changes the tilt of can and cant do. If you are so unhappy about the rewards just do not play it simple as that.

So far you are the only person I have seen to post on complaining about the rewards how would you feel if the reward was dropped to 1000 experience like like the average quest reward was in Prophecies. People like you are really too greedy when it comes to rewards and I blame Factions for this since it made people want to be lazy.

Zinger314 · Dec 14, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

You get unlimited respawns. Therefore, it's easy. Just requires deterrence.

"The Troubled Keeper," however, is more worthy of Master Status.

aubee · Dec 14, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

The "Battle of Turai's Procession" is a perfect example of how Anet has sacrificed the joy of playing to make the game harder.

That quest in particular is reduced to nothing more then grindingly dyeing, resssing, picking one off, dyeing, ressing, picking one off.

Its not fun and its not satisfying.

[...]

[update]

Bangs his head off the desk at the stailmate hes in, becaues his entire team is at -60dp and he cant kill any clerics before his team is wiped out.

Instead of frustrating I found this quest to be a total blast. The first time I did it with just with henchies and heroes. No wipes. No DP. Not sure I even lost a henchie or hero but could have without noticing. I was running my necro with curses with a MM, (probably) Koss, and Dunkoro heroes. All 20th level of course. Don't remember the other henchies, but probably the usual Mhenlo, dervish, paragon, and (probably) Devona. Non-stop casting and attacking made for an exhilarating little battle, imo. As with most everywhere else in Elona, minions help a LOT.

I will say that I had already gone on into the campaign a bit prior to discovering this quest, so I had LB rank at least 2 and was using LBG so I'm sure that helped a lot.

I did it again with a guildie friend and his dervish and it was not as easy as the first time even though that made two of us with LBG. IIRC, I did die once or even a couple of times on that round, but we never came close to wiping, so I wouldn't exactly call it a hard quest.

Burst Cancel · Dec 14, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalimoor_Kalkire

He means to say that in order to make it harder, Anet just pitted larger numbers, much larger numbers against you. Rather then add tactical skill to the quest, it's just an onslaught instead. It's like saying 10v8 wasn't hard to many people, so they made it 15v8. No real change, just more numbers.

Larger numbers forces the use of different tactics. To say that going from 10v8 to 15v8 is "no real change" misses the fact that the 10v8 can be beaten with any number of strategies, including simple brute force, whereas the 15v8 is likely to require a bit more thinking. Beating overwhelming numbers of stronger enemies is difficult exactly because it can't be done through 'normal' means.

Case in point: The Battle of Turai's Procession is actually easy and straightforward with a change in tactics.

Count to Potato · Dec 14, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Dieing and being at a constant -60dp is a challenge, i would embrace challenge and make better builds that counter skills of the AI, pretty simple and compoicated atnthe same time